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Thema: A swastika on a WWI aircraft |
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 | Smyrnov |
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Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 426
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I was watching some photos of American planes from WWI and I was quite surprised to find an aircraft that bears a swastika emblem on it. That particular plane belonged to some American ace and the swastika is a symbol for luck. Can I post the photo?
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 | Meadow |
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Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 2402
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Probably not, as this is a German site. Which way does the swastica go, the 'evil way' or the Hindu way? And is it like the Finnish style or the German style?
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'There are no Belgians to speak of - just the three peoples of Belgium agreeing that they don't hate each other enough to form separate states.' - Jagdpanther
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| Smyrnov |
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Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 426
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It’s a right-facing swastika in the Hindu fashion. We should remember that by the early 20th century it was generally used worldwide and was regarded as a symbol of good luck and auspiciousness. I’m not an expert but it looks similar to the German flag of 1935 except for the fact that it’s upright.
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 | The_Mustard_Man |
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Clan: [BAC]
Postings: 1368
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| Smyrnov hat folgendes geschrieben: | | We should remember that by the early 20th century it was generally used worldwide and was regarded as a symbol of good luck and auspiciousness. |
I recall reading a book on nazism that claimed the swastika emblem was associated with anti-semitism already during the 1920's. On a side note, the skull and hitler salute were also common trademarks of the rightwing Freikorps (brigades consisting of disillusioned WW1 veterans and opportunistic young recruits) that roamed the streets after the great war, brought together by Hitler and his associates.
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| Smyrnov |
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Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 426
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Well the National Socialist German Workers Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) adopted the swastika in 1920 as their symbol and I guess they weren’t very cosmopolitan gents to say the least.
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| Bratskos Di Mola |
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Clan: -=DHA=- Die Hungrigen Adler
Postings: 1214
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Very intresting , Smyrnoff could you PM me the link of the pic.
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 | von Fuchs |
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Clan: Jagdstaffel 99
Postings: 536
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Just enter swastika in google and click the first page "The Legend of Swastika"...There you should find a lot of informations.
[Editiert von von Fuchs am 01.Feb.2006 um 14:12]
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| Bratskos Di Mola |
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Clan: -=DHA=- Die Hungrigen Adler
Postings: 1214
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I've recieved the pics , it's very intresting indeed and very weird to see such thing on the Escadrill Lafayette logo. Let's ask what the American gouverment thinks about it 
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 | Jagdpanther |
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Moderator
Clan: Team Battlefield 1918
Postings: 3348
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The skull of the SS had a different background: it was the sign of a Prussian elite cavalry unit, the Totenkopfhusaren (Deaths Head Hussars), you frequently see pictures of their tchakos in older paintings. For example, Generalfeldmarschall August von Mackensen often wore a hat with a deaths head on it, and he was neither a Nazi nor SS.
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 | Leonidas |
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Clan: TGTW - leader
Postings: 896
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stormtroopers also had a totenkopf right?
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| Jagdpanther |
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Moderator
Clan: Team Battlefield 1918
Postings: 3348
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What is a stormtrooper? SA or SS? The term is actually unknown in Germany. Anyhow, the SS adopted the Deaths Head for itself, but it has no connection to the older cavalry regimental symbol.
[Editiert von Jagdpanther am 01.Feb.2006 um 19:05]
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Im Krieg verrohen die Sitten. Warum soll man eine Tür aufschließen, wenn man auch mit dem Sturmgeschütz dagegenfahren kann?
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| Leonidas |
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Clan: TGTW - leader
Postings: 896
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i'm talking about ww1, prolly 'stosstrupp' then. uknow the guys with the mp18 or the shitload of nades storming.
[Edited by Leonidas at 01.Feb.2006 and 20:10]
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| Jagdpanther |
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Moderator
Clan: Team Battlefield 1918
Postings: 3348
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Oh, these... I think the Deathshead then was a special sign for elite troops, the right to bear it was a privilege. But again - this is probably Prussian tradition, not Nazi background.
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Im Krieg verrohen die Sitten. Warum soll man eine Tür aufschließen, wenn man auch mit dem Sturmgeschütz dagegenfahren kann?
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 | Jagdhippo |
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Clan: [LLJK]
Postings: 1927
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Smyrnov, a person has posted a picture of a helmet with a swastika on it so I don't think you posting the picture would be that bad, and I for one want to see it.
But as they said, the swastika was a symbol of luck and goodness.
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| Jagdpanther |
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Moderator
Clan: Team Battlefield 1918
Postings: 3348
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I read up on the subject: the Deathshead was born in the wars against Napoleon, it seems. When the French attacked Prussia and the allied Brunswick in 1806, the Duke of Brunswick was killed right at the start of the first battle. His men changed their uniform colour to black and wore deathshead badges to seek bloody revenge for their killed leader. As the Brunswick armies were close allies of the Prussians, these adopted the custom, plus some cavalry units seem to have taken the Deathshead from Russian cavalry as well. In the wars of liberation after 1812, the Deathshead became legendary and was again used in the Franco-Prussian War 1870/71 and in WWI. The Nazis simply took over the Deathshead for the SS, giving the badge a bad name until today... typical: all they manage is to spoil a good old tradition that had nothing to do whatsoever with their crap. Just typical...
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Im Krieg verrohen die Sitten. Warum soll man eine Tür aufschließen, wenn man auch mit dem Sturmgeschütz dagegenfahren kann?
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| HELLCAT |
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Clan: Team Battlefield 1918
Postings: 997
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German WW1 Stormtroops badge
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| Smyrnov |
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Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 426
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Sorry Rac00n but I understand that it’s against the rules and some people might even find it offending. I’ve sent the pictures to Di Mola, please contact him. I may send it to you myself but I have no time at the moment.
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| Meadow |
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Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 2402
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A while back Mustard man posted a picture which had a Swastica somewhere on it and he got a three day ban. Sorry Racoon, but the law is the law.
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'There are no Belgians to speak of - just the three peoples of Belgium agreeing that they don't hate each other enough to form separate states.' - Jagdpanther
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 | Kaiserjäger Goldi |
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Moderator
Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 6163
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i will bring you the correct paragraph later
but for education it is allowed to post it
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| Meadow |
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Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 2402
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I doubt the German government would class this forum as educational. If it was in an official article on the history database, maybe.
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Beta Tester, News Poster and English Content Manager for BF1918
'There are no Belgians to speak of - just the three peoples of Belgium agreeing that they don't hate each other enough to form separate states.' - Jagdpanther
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| Kaiserjäger Goldi |
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Moderator
Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 6163
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if you write it to it it is.
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| The_Mustard_Man |
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Clan: [BAC]
Postings: 1368
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The swastika I posted was of the American nazi party, which isn't exactly educational. I'd guess the WW1 aircraft is, because it has a historical background. But then again, the inner sanctum of the team are who decide about things like that.
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| Meadow |
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Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 2402
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Actually, the German police do
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OK, now I just want BF1918/2.
Beta Tester, News Poster and English Content Manager for BF1918
'There are no Belgians to speak of - just the three peoples of Belgium agreeing that they don't hate each other enough to form separate states.' - Jagdpanther
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| Leonidas |
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Clan: TGTW - leader
Postings: 896
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note the totenkopf is also on the standard assault medal in bf2  , so i guess 'assault' (stormtroops etc.) have that as a symbol
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| Parabellum |
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Clan: Team Frontline18
Postings: 5411
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| Jagdpanther hat folgendes geschrieben: | | I read up on the subject: the Deathshead was born in the wars against Napoleon, it seems. |
A skull over crossed bones as a bagde was also worn by the 5th Hussar Regiment ("Black Hussars" or "Death Hussars") of the old Prussion Army since 1741 and I wouldn't bet that they were the first to adopt this symbol...
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| Jagdpanther |
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Moderator
Clan: Team Battlefield 1918
Postings: 3348
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True, there were the Totenkopfhusarenfrom the Seven Years War as well. Probably there are multiple origins for this tradition, and on the Net there was not that much to find about it.
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Im Krieg verrohen die Sitten. Warum soll man eine Tür aufschließen, wenn man auch mit dem Sturmgeschütz dagegenfahren kann?
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| Smyrnov |
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Clan: [BEF]
Postings: 426
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It reminds me of one time in the army, when I’ve seen a soldier that had a tiny death’s-head badge at the rear of his beret. He told me that it was an unofficial badge of the Barrett team he belonged to. Shortly after, I’ve heard that the entire team was court-martialed and sentenced to a couple of months in a military prison. All this because they used the death’s-head symbol.
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| Jagdhippo |
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Clan: [LLJK]
Postings: 1927
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This forum would be educational in the History forum. That is why someone was able to post a helmet with a swastika on it in here and was not chastised. Hence, not against the law.
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 | sgtkar98 |
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Clan: Kein Clan
Postings: 113
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I was going to ask this.
I saw a swastika on an Albatross.But it wasn´t one the back flap,was on the body.....
BTW,the jasta something used a swastika in his emble.
If Hitler was an ordinary soldier during WWI,so,what that mean?
And weird,"swastika" is the hindu name.Hakenkreuz is the german one....
Story of swastika?Haven´t found.Only BS.
[Editiert von sgtkar98 am 03.Feb.2006 um 00:09]
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| Jagdpanther |
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Moderator
Clan: Team Battlefield 1918
Postings: 3348
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"Hakenkreuz" is more a description than a name. It means, litteraly, "cross with hooks" - very fitting.
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